...they turn out like this...
(apologies for the mud, we'd just got back on a slightly wild day)
...or sometimes like this...
The feet belong to 2 different horses and they have neither of them been trimmed since, I think, 2009 or possibly slightly earlier - so 6 years of no trimming.
I'm sure I will get comments but lets see!
Pretty is as pretty does. I do wish trimmers would put the rasp away and not get fixated on an ideal hoof shape. No trimming has been a major step forward for most of my guys (all bets are off with laminitics though!)
ReplyDeleteAll bets are off with all sorts... I have a five-year-old who was toeing out so badly, exacerbated by always being turned out on the hills, that his LH hoof capsule started to literally "slip" off to the lateral side and curl in on the medial. His pelvis was starting to be affected as was his overall ability to move. He got sent home from lessons and physio couldn't do anything for him while he was walking the way he was. Conservative trimming certainly didn't work for him. 15 months of relatively invasive trimming have changed his whole way of going and returned him to soundness. Still barefoot at this point, pending review of his future workload. Exceptions prove the rule, I guess...
ReplyDeleteI certainly wouldn't be betting until your youngster has been in consistent hard work for some years, Maria. 15 months is the blink of an eye but let me know how you get on at 5 years and 10 years down the line :-)
ReplyDeleteThis is good if your horse does miles and miles of work every day which for some people is just not possible. Wish it could be though ;-)
ReplyDeleteI tried doing road work for self trimming (just walking) and my gelding came up lame... He seems to only go sound with no excess hoof wall. I wish we could have a track system or I could figure my gelding out!
ReplyDeleteBaloo, the good news is that miles and miles isn't necessary for self-maintaining hooves - although its nice when horses can cover lots of miles of course. Alicia, I'd agree about no hoof wall - our horses certainly don't load hoof wall and would quickly chip it off if it were long.
ReplyDeleteDo these horses live in as optimal conditions as you can possible do in the UK? I.e. Do they live on your track system?
ReplyDeleteMine have minimal trimming and as good an environment and diet I can give them within my means (old railway land, hardcore and minimal grass or mud, hay diet) but no outside field exercise. Recently one was stabled 24/7 for 5 weeks and his hind feet were still beautiful at the end of that time (due for a trim when started to be box rested) back feet always good. Front feet collapsed, but was conservatively trimmed after two weeks of being back out and they'd improved a lot. Lots better now. Never got the fronts as good as the backs though in 16 years. Trimmer thinks I'm somewhat fussy, he's not sore or footy.
I'm just thinking that while I really believe in letting the horse find his own feet as it were, some help might need to be given to counteract the damage of less that ideal environments.
My landlord has two horses in the back yard who haven't been trimmed in a significant amount of time (actually, the nine year old may not be trimmed at all). They are 9 and 20+ years old, and while the older guy used to be in really regular work, the 9 year old hasn't been. They are on 24/7 turn out and move around a lot. They both have awesome feet! I have lived here for two years and haven't seen either one take a bad step. Horse friends who visit often ask who their farrier is and are shocked to learn they don't have one!
ReplyDeleteI really do think that environment is a huge factor in this. I used to have several horses who self trimmed for at least five years with just pasture turnout and all had beautiful feet. Then I moved to my current property, which has very poor, extremely acidic soil and all their feet fell apart within weeks of stepping off the trailer. This is actually what started me on my hoof journey.
ReplyDeleteI have my critters living on a track system with a very tightly controlled diet, but they still won't self trim without problems. Their feet just grow and grow until they curl up and cripple the animal. I see it all too often in this area.
The soil is even worse on my neighbor's place. Her pasture is basically a peat bog filled with rocks. They have put in huge amounts drainage, gravel and stone, but the constant wet, acid environment eats away at the feet. My soil pH tests at 4.2. I have spent thousands adding lime to it and trying to build better tracks, but it will never be good soil and I will never be able to afford the kind of excavation work that building hard, dry ground would take.
Then there are the donkeys. Their feet really are different from horses, much tougher and far more elastic. They suck up moisture like a sponge and do not wear down at all on soft ground. They are designed for really dry, harsh, desert terrain and if you can't provide that, then not trimming their feet is real abuse. They become absolutely crippled by lack of trimming and it can happen in a very short time. My one donkey came to me with the beginnings of severe elf slippers and she was only 1 year old at the time. Her father's feet curled up and dug into the front of his cannon bone while the side wall bent sideways and covered the whole bottom of his foot. I cut ten inches of curled, twisted toe off of him and it looked like a cinnamon role in cross section. Extreme hoof problems are the number one cause of lameness and death in donkeys in the UK. I would really love to see how a couple of donkeys would do on your tracks and if it would be enough for them. Besides, donkeys are fun, you should have a couple:)
Can I add my support to the "I leave them be" camp - my four are pretty much self trimming, and also a "no loading on hoof wall" brigade. I must admit it takes a bit of effort to be pretty relentless about diet and environment, but I don't have a track system, just lots of rough stoney surfaces amid the grass (we are upland hill farm) and as much daily movement as possible and a strict diet. I have a varied range of horse feet - on a 7yo in regular work (and currently out hunting), a 4yo on just minimal work, a 20yo who is semi-retired (and whose feet were wonky but are now SO much better when she's allowed to grow the foot she needs)and a mini shettie who is neither worked nor trimmed. I may run a rasp over the 20yo and the 4yo once every couple of months or so but otherwise no touchy! I am commenting here because it is largely through the wisdom of Nic's Rockley approach that I am where I am with my lovely feet ...
ReplyDeleteAaah Nic. One of these days I am going to start up a US version of Rockley Farm right here in Texas and set horses off on the track to grow a better foot themselves. It really works.
ReplyDeleteMy horses couldn't self trim until they started being allowed to. Yes they grew wall, but it soon regulated itself.
ReplyDeleteMine haven't been trimmed since 2011, they are on 24/7 turnout on mixed grassland and woodland. No tracks but large stone area around barns. They move a lot with 30acres of wood. No one has been trimmed, some have always had perfect looking feet (ie they never grew longer walls) others grew longer and longer walls until they broke off when the back of the foot became strong enough to load it. They didn't look pretty whilst long but they needed to be that long in order to strengthen the back of foot sufficiently. If I'd have trimmed, I'd have set them back, just as Nic's always saying! Now we have 5 sets of very neat feet, and one remedial newcomer (still won't be trimmed).
ReplyDeleteI think there are horses carrying undiagnosed injuries which make a foot grow very oddly and they stay sound. The owner then calls in a trimmer, who cuts the foot 'straight'. Meanwhile, the injury recovers under the 'regression to the mean' rule which means most injuries recover in six months anyway. By the time a new foot is through, the horse has recovered, but of course the trimming is always credited with the recovery.
ReplyDeleteI've lost count of the number of people who have told me that trimming sorted out their horse, but when you question them, if they will answer, they have changed feed, work, or other things at the same time.
C.
Hi Nic, finally some pictures of self trimming hooves, thanks, hope you will post some more, just wonder, do you have pictures from the time these hooves were trimmed?
ReplyDeleteAn ongoing back problem (mine) meant no more tidying up of the hooves of my 3 horses. When the hooves looked a little too long I just went on a ride over some pretty rough terrain (rocky fire trails) for a couple of hours. They are kept on a track which makes them walk a long distance between pasture and water, minerals are supplemented and access to grass is metered out by moving the portable fence so they don't overeat. I had been experimenting on and off with no trimming - its a hard habit to break!! It is so tempting to just clean up that uneven toe!! So - get a back problem people. Then you will believe that self trimming is possible ;)
ReplyDeleteWhat great comments folks - thanks so much and some fantastic points made by you all. Bruce and Jane - we have all been on this journey a long time now and your brainstorming has made a huge difference to me - thank you both especially :-)
ReplyDeleteI agree environment makes a huge difference but if you look at the people who have self-trimming horses there is a range of different set-ups and some horses in work, some not, but it still works. I know how hard it can be in the wet - we too have horrendous wet land and acid soil and its a challenge for sure. I've had horses here self-trimming though with nothing beyond regular turnout and a small concrete yard to get dry on so that might be a cheaper option?