tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8415492346905673232.post7636211922050496629..comments2024-03-14T06:57:29.577+00:00Comments on Rockley Farm: Only one way to train a horse?Nic Barkerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06885459438592023135noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8415492346905673232.post-89400914419906661452011-05-29T12:03:57.515+01:002011-05-29T12:03:57.515+01:00I think the original blog was quite probably refer...I think the original blog was quite probably refering to negative reinforcement, which is the foundation of MOST forms of horse training, bar purely reward based systems, like clicker and treat training.<br /><br />The title was worded crudely, perhaps deliberately so, but the fact remains that every time we put a leg aid on to a horse, every time we take up contact on a lead rope, it is negative reinforcement and putting, or at least pre-warning the horse of impending pressure which says "don't do that any more". The horse learns by finding a way to make you put as little pressure as possible on and working out what new behaviour to exhibit to make you take it off. But it is all, at the end of the day, inconveniencing him from exhibiting a behaviour which you no longer require. <br /><br />A purely reward based system without ever inconveniencing a horse is hard to achieve and is really inefficient in terms of time. According to some studies, reward combined with negative reinforcement is the most humane, and its certainly what I see in the most kind and effective horse trainers.ka_knockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03890177624211918982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8415492346905673232.post-11223580076283562142011-05-26T09:12:02.855+01:002011-05-26T09:12:02.855+01:00Jen, Val, Olivia - so true - and I totally agree a...Jen, Val, Olivia - so true - and I totally agree about the dangers of quick fix one-six-fits-all solutions :-) I also love Olivia's phrase of wanting to encourage the behaviours we like - exactly what I was trying to say!<br /><br />Gina, I am afraid the answer, as so often, is "It depends" - on how long your horse has been shod, and how well, how motivated and tough he is, what his nutritional status is,whether he has any underlying healthy issues. <br /><br />To give you a gross generalisation, though, a sound, healthy horse on an appropriate diet whose feet have not lost too much integrity with shoeing (and are reasonably well-developed caudally) will be sound in an arena and across the fields straight away and will cope with a reasonable level of roadwork within 4-6 weeks.Nic Barkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06885459438592023135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8415492346905673232.post-24974332817159302202011-05-26T01:54:32.563+01:002011-05-26T01:54:32.563+01:00I have a question I have a TB that has feet much l...I have a question I have a TB that has feet much like the one in the previous (x2) post. I believe I have talked you about going barefoot before and I like the idea more and more. However, 1. I board which means he is only out at night now from 4 pm to 7/8 am, 2. He is the kid of horse that tends to get 'hot' off of work and is eventing fit and 3. I can not manipulate the surfaces he walks on. Is it possible to take such a horse barefoot successfully with these issues? And how long does a horse usually go if they arrive with no lameness but very unbalanced feet to workably sound in a groomed arena or paved road?Ginahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06561439666358663664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8415492346905673232.post-78574400158395977522011-05-25T21:02:51.264+01:002011-05-25T21:02:51.264+01:00Interesting points, which reminds me of a recent t...Interesting points, which reminds me of a recent training experience. When offering my horse carrots as a reward, I was told that I was "cheating". To this I said, "There's no rule book. And it's called reward." My horse definitely did not find this type of motivation an inconvenience. ;)Valhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07335385366138424092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8415492346905673232.post-86291076460697671792011-05-25T19:02:18.326+01:002011-05-25T19:02:18.326+01:00I agree that inconveniencing hardly seems like the...I agree that inconveniencing hardly seems like the only way to train. I think it works for discouraging negative behavior, like biting or digging, but it won't do anything to create encourage the behaviors you like. <br /><br />Currently both of our horses come eagerly to the gate and want to work. I can't imagine this would be the case if they were constantly inconvenienced.Olivia @ DIY Horse Ownershiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16138490796669110523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8415492346905673232.post-56691602499564968712011-05-25T15:15:50.332+01:002011-05-25T15:15:50.332+01:00I actually agree with both of you.
The key to th...I actually agree with both of you. <br /><br />The key to the quote you posted is "when he exhibits behavior that you disapprove of." If a horse is being nasty at feeding time, I will "inconvenience" him by playing boss mare until he backs down and only comes toward his food when I invite him to do so. If he has to think twice about loading (Saga sometimes gets stuck halfway up the ramp), I'm going to "inconvenience" him by patting him on the butt to ask him to go forward. Basically he's not getting his way, I'm getting mine.<br /><br />But I also agree that the majority of the time, I don't want my horses to think of me as an "inconvenience". I want them to respect me as a herd leader and stay out of my space, and if that's an "inconvenience" to them, that's the price of them living at my house! ;) Riding is definitely a partnership, and we've each got our own parts to fulfill. I want to trust my horse to make decisions, but I also need for him to trust me to make decisions (i.e. no, that trash can does not contain a scary horse-eating monster, so you can walk past it and live).<br /><br />Handling horses and riding requires a good dose of common sense and listening to your horse. You can't just lump every horse and every situation into a single catch phrase (make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard, or whatever). It's a great deal of learned experiences, but sadly, there are too many who want the quick fix or a one-size-fits-all solution. Life sure doesn't work that way, and horses don't either.jenjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01737679332792618499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8415492346905673232.post-68493422621320264062011-05-25T12:50:47.163+01:002011-05-25T12:50:47.163+01:00This sounds like someone who has misunderstood the...This sounds like someone who has misunderstood the idea of making the right thing to do the easiest thing to do. I use this explanation especially in training jumping. If the speed, pace, balance and straightness are correct, then it is easier to jump than to stop or run out. If the horse stops or runs out, the rider was probably making it too hard to jump. Take that approach and twist it around into a negative way of dealing with animals (or life) and you get the 'make it inconvenient' approach. Like you - I prefer the whole thing to be much more positive and cheerful. :-)Barbarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01571711150060964222noreply@blogger.com